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Text File | 1994-02-14 | 29KB | 831 lines

File: Date: 2/10/94 Start Time: 5:58:27 PM End Time: 7:59:47 PM Lines: 888 Chat length: 53757 bytes Number of participants: 49 Participants: AFA Andrew, AFA Dennis, AFC Carey, AFC Oglvie, AFC PeterS, AFC Pieter, AFL Bear, AFL GeneS, AFL Zobkiw, Alexis Kai, AngeloL936, Big Raver, BryanR, BWain19921, CAPT MA194, CE RogerS, ChancryLaw, ChuckS26, ChuckS3257, CZygmont, Dan Bryant, DaveKam, DBAldrich, Don Brown, EarlChr, FORD MANCE, IleneH, JimCan, JimXLewis, Kamprath, KEVIN617, Kyp Durron, LARRY K459, LONDON1813, LovettN, MarcRes, MIKEL617, Morris S1, MrCHIPSTER, OnlineHost, Pointoview, Robert9284, RocknRic, Snalak, StewMiller, SusanLesch, TA Peek, TheRonster, TohruO AFL Bear : konwn more commonly as AOCE. With AOCE, collaboration services are integrated into the System 7 operating system, enabling users to consolidate many forms of electronic correspondence common today such as voice mail, electronic mail, and faxes. In addition, third- party developers will be able to build on AOCE's foundation to create and deliver new kinds of applications for integrated personal communications, team productivity, and affordable workflow systems, such as forms processing. The first two versions of AOCE based software products, one that will reside on an individual end user's desktop Macintosh or Apple PowerBook, and one that provides additional server-based collaboration services for AppleTalk networks. The end-user product, PowerTalk, includes collaboration services for the individual, such as a universal mailbox for integrated electronic correspondence, an easy drag-and-drop method of sending documents, a rich catalog capability for easy access to all kinds of information, and a digital signature capability, which enables electronic approval of documents. The server product, PowerShare Collaboration Servers, provides services for small or large groups of PowerTalk users. These services include a shared store-and-forward facility for electronic messaging, server-based authentication and privacy for secure network communications, and centralized administration of shared catalogs that are distributed across multiserver networks for optimal performance. PowerShare catalogs that are distributed across multiple servers can be replicated and synchronized for reliability. The PowerTalk and PowerShare products are based on AOCE's architecture, which has open application programming interfaces (APIs) so that third- party developers can easily take advantage of AOCE services from within their products. In addition, Apple and third-party developers can create software modules that provide plug-and- play access from AOCE based applications to existing and future messaging and directory services. System 7 Pro with PowerTalk is an upgrade to System 7 that provides a unified framework for collaboration on the Macintosh computer. The PowerTalk package includes System 7 extensions for collaborative services, and AppleMail, a letter application for sending and receiving messages. AppleMail is included in order to enable PowerTalk users to immediately take advantage of the collaborative features of System 7 with PowerTalk. PowerTalk requires a hard drive. Apple recommends 5MB RAM for PowerTalk users. PowerShare is the AOCE server product. The PowerShare package provides server based services. Only customers who require a server based environment will need to purchase the PowerShare package. Basic collaboration services are available in the PowerTalk package. To decide whether or not a customer will need a PowerShare server, see the section 'To Server or Not To Serve.' Anyway, there is some background material on just what AOCE is... In any case, with that background in mind, I'll turn the chat over to the traitor.... Er, uh, departing... GeneS! Take it away, Gene! AFL GeneS : Just to let all of you know what these dark hints at my departure are all about.... Basically, I've accepted the position of Forum Leader for a brand new Macintosh Forum.... on America Online.....the Multimedia Forum... We'll be going live in early March, and we'll be letting you all know in the coming weeks visiting MOS often, to see all my friends.... And I'll invite all of you to add the new MMM forum to your list of AOL haunts... when we are ready. We've got lots of nice things planned, that we'll tell you about later. I'll be there in spirit. Anyway, now that Bear has recovered from his bout with shortened breath.... let's move on. Assisting me this evening are our trusy forum consultants, the lovely and... talented AFC Carey, the always present AFC Pieter, and the long-missed AFC Oglvie.... who is suffering bad weather in Texas today. As Bear states, we'll be discussing System 7 Pro and Apple's AOCE.... We'll be observing protocol tonight... That means you should type ? for a question and! when you want to make a comment... on the issue being discussed. Try not to interrupt the flow of the conversation, and let's start, at least.... with AOCE subjects and move on from there. Thanks. SusanLesch : I run a standalone testing setup and am not interested in AppleScript at this time. Do I need... to invest in S7 Pro? Thanks! GA AFL GeneS : Who wants to tackle that one? AFC Oglvie : Susan - depending on what you want to do ... System 7 Pro has some compatibility issues with some software, but for larger workgroups ... it really is great -- the integration of mail, files, networks and users is phenomenal .. one of it's aspects is AppleScript, but that is by far one of the smaller points. SusanLesch : The compatibility issues, what are they? If I can get by with 7.x I'd be happy. AFC Oglvie : And as a note to everyone, 7 Pro comes with AppleScript 1.0, NOT 1.1 ... The only real compatibility problems I've seen are with older inits. SusanLesch : Okay, thanks much. GA DBAldrich : I missed the opening explination so this question may have been covered...I there any advantage for a home user to get system 7 pro over system 7.1? AFL GeneS : DB: My personal opinion.... unless you are interacting with another Mac user across a network is no. Anything to add, Greg? AFC Pieter : No, it really is only of use to networked Macs AFC Oglvie : Unless you log into a network with ARA at work (like I do) then it's handy there too .. MIKEL617 : I have found AppleScript very useful for personal use at home as well as for Networking at work...It can automate daily tasks and savetime..... True as well.... AFL GeneS : True enough, Mike, but you don't need System 7 Pro to run AppleScript (7.1 is fine!) MIKEL617 : But, S7 Pro is available for $99, so why not just get all of the new features in S7 Pro? What problems have developers, or anyone else come across with System 7 Pro? I use it myself and it... DBAldrich : If I were to use system 7 pro and ARA then do I need to be connected to get mail or will..it que up somewhere until the next time I connect? AFL Bear : You can connect with normal ARA, but... with the Apple DialUp extension, AOCE will automate your mail pickup and delivery. ga AFC Oglvie : NOTE: Direct Dialup is incompatible with ARA 1.0 - you must have 2.0 to use it at the same time. Robert9284 : You said before PowerTalk requires 5MB is there a min. setup? AFL GeneS : That IS the minimum setup recommended. It adds about 600K to your System size... when all the inits are loaded. AFL Bear : Any System 7.1 capable machine with 5 megs or more. :) Robert9284 : Oh well time to order more simm for my office IIci TohruO : [Robert, RAMDoubler will do cheaper :-)] MIKEL617 : It is possible to do it with 4MB, but not if you need to run any application that needs much RAM. AFL GeneS : Please don't interrupt, but RAM Doubler...still requires that one application and system size not exceed installed RAM. It'll be a tight fit. MIKEL617 : Yes, it is. I wouldn't want to do it myself:) Robert9284 : True since it just cost a ton o cash for the 4mbs I just got AFL GeneS : Run in 4MB, Mike? Is that what you meant? MIKEL617 : Run PowerTalk with only 4MB of RAM... AFL Bear : I've run System 7 Pro on 5 megs, and it's tough. With the Server running, that's all she wrote.:) Robert9284 : Ok I am going to wait until my Ram comes and then I will have 17 megs on board GA TA Peek : I am a developer, I run 7.1 pro and would like to also install QDGX Beta, what the best way do this? AFL GeneS : TA: I don't think we want..to get into issues of development software... in this chat. Unless someone else wants to discuss it. AFL Bear : We're not supposed to know this, but I'll say it in one word... Mozart. <done> AFC Carey : He's been looking rather green lately, Bear ;) AFL Bear : Since you're a developer...You'll know what that means. :) TA Peek : Ok ... I have another for the Q .. Thanks ? TohruO : I read Apple Propaganda on Alink that Apple would implement Internet access capabilities to AOCE...in S7.5 Pro coming around next April :-) How will it be different from using Anarchie or Gopher? :-) GA AFL Bear : I don't knwo what Apple is doing, but I believe StarNine has already done it. (GA) AFL GeneS : Tohru: The rumor mill has it that System 7.5 Pro has slipped till the summer. TA, your comment? AFC Oglvie : Tohru - there is no public information available on 7.5 at this time. TA Peek : I have the starnine and it works great! TohruO : Oh, okay :-) GA MIKEL617 : What problems have come up with compatibility of System 7 Pro? I use it and it seems fine so far.... Although a few control panels gave me a little trouble. AFL GeneS : MIKE: Stuff that patches the Finder may have difficulties. Bear, what do you wish to add? AFL Bear : It seems to be one of Apple's smoothest upgrades to date, and while some things broke in a minor way.. most modern software works fine. <done> AFC Carey : I find that keeping PowerTalk turned off helps, actually, when you aren't needing it. But I have had a pretty easy time with it too. It even works with Shiva's Dial-In software, which says something too. AFL GeneS : Carey: That also reduces system size a few hundred K...which can help in a tight situation. MIKEL617 : The Compatibility checker was a great thing to include when upgrading. I was able to tour Shiva...My teachers husband works at Shiva... ChuckS3257 : Is there a way to run another application while downloading from AOL? AFL GeneS : Sure, just switch to that application, by clicking on your Finder desktop first. But be careful what you do. Too much CPU activity could abort or slow down a download. MIKEL617 : Yes, just click anywhere on the desktop. AFL Bear : (But it will work better after the new mac Software for AOL comes out.) ChuckS3257 : Thanks Gene. MrCHIPSTER : I am puting together a new network and looking for guidance on 7pro and tcp/ip any good sources? AFC Pieter : What do you want to know. It is pretty simple. Robert9284 : Try MacWorlds Guide to Networking. It is an excellent book I use and recommend it MrCHIPSTER : What cards utility software activity tracking etc AFL Bear : I think you want to be sure to get MacTCP 2.0.4 for S7Pro, too. MrCHIPSTER : I will try the book thanks AFL Bear : I recommend that outfit from Virginia - InterCon. They have some good utilities. AFC Pieter : GraceLAN and Farallon also make very good utilities for watching your Network. AFL Bear : Farallon gave up TrafficWatch to Neon Software. AFC Pieter : Well then Technology Works(GraceLAN) and Neon. Robert9284 : Trik offers a program called KnokKnok AFC Pieter : Trik be no more. They sold out to Symantec and plan on closing down rsn. StewMiller : MacTCP can be purchased much more cheaply than buying APDA. My comment was to buy MacTCP from a book. It is called the Internet Starter Kit by Adam Engst for $25 in every bookstore. MarcRes : Hi, My system software takes about 2000K when I start up but it can get down to 1000K sometimes It still maintains a block of memory as big as when I started up. Why doesn't it give up that memory? AFL Bear : There could be all sorts of reasons. The best thing to do is post a message in the MOS boards...outlining your configuration and let us and other users.... offer advice there. ga TohruO : Anyone kindly let me know which APPs currently compatible and get best advantage out of AOCE. I know WordPerfect and some other mailing programs are compatible. Anything else? :-) GA AFL Bear : QuickMail is... And others are coming all the time... if you get MacWeek, the GateWays area has news on that topic. (I think FIleMaker has something coming,too) But you didn't hear it from me. TohruO : Tnx, John :-) Yup, I download archived articles of MacWEEK every week from Ziffnet :-) GA AngeloL936 : I got on a little late, what is AOCE and what is the topic about? (For any latecomers, thanks :) AFL Bear : With AOCE, collaboration services are integrated into the System 7 operating system, enabling users to consolidate many forms of electronic correspondence common today such as voice mail, electronic mail, and faxes. In addition, third- party developers will be able to build on AOCE's foundation to create and deliver new kinds of applications for integrated personal communications, team productivity, and affordable workflow systems, such as forms processing. :) TA Peek : Powershare ... when and how much? AFL Bear : Greg, do you know the lastest estimate on PowerShare? AFC Oglvie : PowerShare is out and has been for a month ...No clue on pricing ... sorry. JimXLewis : I would like guess at bomb'n 840's??? Random freeze two different machine generally associated with scrolling... AFL GeneS : Jim....do the 840s have 16MB or 32MB SIMMs installed in them? JimXLewis : Now Utilities, Suitcase 2.1.4, and other INITs... systems are primarily DTP systems.:) AFL GeneS : You need Now 4.0.2 and Suitcase 2.1.4p1 for an AV Mac. JimXLewis : I don't know the size, but I do know they are composite SIMMs. AFL GeneS : Then that may be your problem..Apple says that composite SIMMs are an absolute no no, especially on a fast Quadra. You can avoid lots of headaches by swapping them out for non- composites. AFC Oglvie : composite RAM - BAD! IleneH : Anyone who has tried composite SIMMS says they are a no no too! JimXLewis : I've heard that a number of times, where can I trade <g>! AFL GeneS : Yes, and some dealers don't know the difference, sad to say. Go back to your dealer, Jim and deal with them. They should not have sold you composites. AngeloL936 : Composite simms are like composite diamonds...not real! AFL GeneS : The price differential, for 16MB, for example, is probably about $100. AFC Pieter : Gene, but real 16 and 32 Meg simms are god awful expensive. JimXLewis : These are inherited machines, I'm not entirely sure what the arrangements were unfortunately.:) AFL GeneS : Pieter, I've seen them within $100-150 for 16MB varieties. A couple of crashes will pay for that. Jim, try to sell them off if you can, or contact the original dealer if you have the chance.... composite SIMMs can cause all sorts of headaches. ut update Now Utilities and Suitcase , in case you are lucky. JimXLewis : Thanks, Gene. I'll be continually plugging away at them....<g>:) Robert9284 : Does anybody have a problem with the 660AV and a OneScanner AFC Oglvie : Robert you can't use the AppleScan software with it ... Robert9284 : What about Ofoto or Omnipage Pro AFC Oglvie : Robert, they should be ok .. but you also need Scanner 2.0 extension .. AngeloL936 : What about Ofoto, Robert??? Robert9284 : the program says that the scanner isn't on when it is. The only way it will work is if the Mac is started and the scanner is mounted w/SCSI probe AFC Oglvie : Are you using Scanner 2.0 extension? Robert9284 : I belive so AFC Oglvie : You might want to call SOS-APPL tomorrow and ask - I'm not sure exactly .. TohruO : Scanner extension I currently use is already 3.0 (that is not compatible with older OneScanner, though :-) CZygmont : With AV? My Parents have a P600 that I could trade them for my Q700. Where do the extra AV ports go, what about GeoPort? AFL GeneS : The Q700 is twice as fast, CZ. Unless you're going to upgrade to PowerPC with the 600. AFC Oglvie : CZ - the AV options are on a PDS card .. so it should be no problem .. CZygmont : I would get the P600 and the PPC upgrade. AFL GeneS : That may make sense, yes. CZygmont : Ports through an (dare I say) IBM style expansion card. Any idea on price? I hear rumor the AV upgrade will be more than a plain vanilla upgrade for the P600. AngeloL936 : How do I get something OUT of he "resource fork" of my System file??? AFL Bear : Very carefully... AFL GeneS : What are you trying to remove, Angelo? TohruO : Angelo, use ResEdit :-) AFL Bear : Use ResEdit on a copy of the System... GMTA! AngeloL936 : A screen capture program called SnapIt. It doesn't do what I wish and I want it OUT! AFL Bear : Is it an FKey? AngeloL936 : I cannot locate it AFL Bear : It's probably an FKey... TohruO : And of courese, using a ResEdit requires everytime caution on any hack AT YOUR OWN RISK :-) ChancryLaw : Is it in your Apple Menu, Angelo??? AFL Bear : Do you hit a CMD/SHIFT/Number key to activate it? AngeloL936 : I think it is. It installed 4 resources: FKEu, crsr, CURS, and snd AFL Bear : Just lose the Fkey. AFL GeneS : There are so many other options, Angelo, it seems hardly worth it. AngeloL936 : I cannot find them AFL Bear : The Fkey is harmless too, unless you use it. HKeys are inert resources. FKeys, I mean. MarcRes : Why are they called FKEYs but the F(unction) Key doesn't activate it? :) AngeloL936 : Will it create conflicts with other stuff AFC Oglvie : Marc: older macs didn't have the extended keyboard, so apple invented another way to activate .. :( AngeloL936 : I don't have Resedit AFL GeneS : Bear, aren't there Fkey removers out there? TohruO : Angelo, do not remove all resources. There are some like crsr, CURS, snd esseantial for the System itself:-) JimXLewis : There is always the option for a clean re- install of the system Angelo:) AFL GeneS : Yes, a better possibility. TohruO : First, open each resource and make sure which ID of those resources are unnecessary :-) AngeloL936 : I got the ID numbers, but don't know how to pinpoint them and remove them AFL Bear : Give that Angelo does not have ResEdit, I vote for the clean install. that is, does not. (Geez) MarcRes : Don't forget the difference between clean install and update AFL Bear : IN the top level of MOS, there is a frequently asked questions area. It has a topic describing how to do a clean install. JimCan : Does anyone know much about desktop patterns? AFL Bear : ppat#16's - sure, Jim. JimCan : For kicks, I changed the desktop pattern in ResEdit, and later I decided to change it back to the original. So when I tried going into the General Control Panel all I could choose from were B&W patterns AFL Bear : and, Jim? AFC Oglvie : You probably have to zap PRAM -- to clear out your pattern resources ..It happens all the time with those pattern-enhancers on the market. AFL Bear : Greg, the DTpattern is stored as ppat #15 in the System FIle...16, not 15 I don╒t think zapping clears it. But a clean install will, Jim. AFC Oglvie : I'd try anyway - I know that it screws your general controls if you don't though .. :( JimCan : I tried to reinstall the system but its still B&W AFL GeneS : Jim, did you trash your old system file first. If not, it's just updated, not replaced. JimCan : OK, thanks, I'll try it again, throwing it away first! JimXLewis : A clean reinstall might then again be the best bet. JimCan : But I'll try trashing my old system first, thanks. Bye! IleneH : ?- advice sorely needed. Do I buy a PowerPC w/ Insignia emulation or a 486 for Windoze only telecom? which is cheaper? AFL Bear : PowerPC! AFL GeneS : Agreed! AFL Bear : IS better, not cheaper. AFL GeneS : SoftWindows will be bundled with some PowerPC models. So sayeth Apple. AFC Pieter : SoftWindows is not bad on a PowerPC. AFL GeneS : Yeah, mid 386 to low 486 speed. IleneH : which model do I have to get, I hear the low end is stilltoo slow. AFL GeneS : Go for at least the mid-range one, Ilene. AFC Pieter : No mid 386. Nowhere near 486, atleast not on the unit I tested. AFL GeneS : They claim up to low 486 depending on the application you run. Word would not apply in that setup. CZygmont : I have heard that SoftWindows will only run in Window's Protected Mode. Not the Enhanced mode that most programs really need. AFL GeneS : You were testing on a low-end PowerPC with small hard drive, remember. AFC Pieter : There claims may be exagerated, I tested it and it was not 486. AFL GeneS : Try it on the high-end model with Level 2 cache. CZygmont : Insignia supposedly will add more features later on this year to SoftWindows. AFC Pieter : Not even in speed. Winbech showed it to be middle of the road 386/20 IleneH : well, now we're talking abou $4000 bucks here!!! AFL GeneS : Ilene: That's for the high-end model. Low end will be two grand. CZygmont : Thats what I heard. Initially it will be rather limited. AFL GeneS : Pieter: Which model was it tested on? IleneH : right, but I need 486 speed which seems to be high end model. ugh. CZygmont : What are you trying to do Ilene? IleneH : I am trying to become a sysop on the new Ziff service, but its only Windoze! AFL GeneS : Well, do you get paid for it? CZygmont : It requires a 486? If you need extra room heating maybe you should consider a Pentium! IleneH : volunteer at first and maybe a shot at a paid pos. when they start moving and grooving! AFL GeneS : Hmmm..... Why do you need a 486? Just for telecom, a 386 should be enough. IleneH : I hear the windows are too slow on a 386 - its GUI! AFL GeneS : Just to run telecom software--it can't be that slow. CZygmont : How about a Q610 DOS Compat? AFL GeneS : I run AOL WIndows on SoftPC With Windows on a Quadra, and I can get away with it. Sort of. IleneH : one of the beta testers said it was pretty slow. but its not really in beta yet, so maybe that was alpha, I dunno...A Q 610 would be slower than a ppc MarcRes : I used to work with Windows on a 386SX. It was only slow because of the lack of RAM CZygmont : I have a Mac Hardware question/problem. The sound in my Sound Control Panel keeps reseting itself to off. AFC Pieter : Try Zapping your PRAm and see if that helps. AFL Bear : What CPU and did you zap your PRam? IleneH : Mine did that a few weeks ago. CZygmont : This started after I had upgraded my VRAM. Q700. IleneH : I rebooted with no INITs, set it, then I was ok. CZygmont : I thought of that but haven't done it yet. AFL Bear : Do you have QuicKeys, or some other utility which can set sound levels for each application? IleneH : What games do you run? CZygmont : No. Myst, SimCity 2000. AFL Bear : What are you thinking, Ilene? Did you have a game do that to you? Later, Marc! CZygmont : The VRAMS came from TechWorks but from different batches. (2 boards direct from TW 4 from CompUSA) IleneH : Well, one of my games seemed to zap by Sound Cont. Pan. and it just kept setting itself to 0. AFL Bear : CZ, do you have any Perfoma Control Panels or Macintosh Easy Open? IleneH : Wasn't Myst, but could have been SIMANT. CZygmont : No. I don't believe so. Remember this is a Quadra. AFL Bear : Yeah, but I run them on my FX... :) Any Mac can run those. CZygmont : Like Launcher? AFL Bear : I don't think launcher does it, but I'm not sure. CZygmont : I thought the Performa stuff was kinda special. AFL Bear : There's one utility I'm trying to think of, but it escapes me right now. CZygmont : I'll do the PRAM zap thing - again. AFC PeterS : You mean a utility that resets the sound level? IleneH : Doesn't NOW let you set sound on the fly? AFL Bear : Right, Peter. AFC PeterS : NowMenus CZygmont : Not that I have used. IleneH : CZ - do you have now menus? CZygmont : Yeah. AFL Bear : Bingo! IleneH : Maybe theres a bad pref. file or something AFC PeterS : Is your game on aany of the launch menus? Hmmm. Well, you can try two things:...First, add the game to a menu so you cn control it, and make sure the game's volume is at No Change. Second, boot w/extensions off, kill the NM prefs, reboot. (You'll lose all NM settings, of course.) TohruO : Peter, Disney (a new breed of another After Dark suite) sometimes resets sound level to zero :-)